UFC 128: "Shogun vs. Jones", March 19th, Newark, N.J.
- Thread starter kickserv
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If someone is good off their back that means he ca either submit from his back, or be able to reverse the position. I don't really know what makes you think he able to do that.
He has one submission in his career against a pure wrestler in a time when BJJ skills and submission defence weren't where they are at now.
You will have to go way back to pride days to even see him reverse someone from the bottom. (I don't even remember it happening I'm just assuming he did)
But people still want to make it seem that if Shogun is on his back Shogun has him right where he wants him
They also mention that Shogun will be throwing a number of kick at Jones' lead leg. Despite the fact that Shogun clearly wants to keep the fight off the ground.
Have you ever seen Shogun in danger off his back? Have you seen Shogun off his back? He's so active, and hardly down there very long at all. He has fought some of the best wrestlers in MMA history, and never once in danger off his back.
You just don't get it.
GW, I know my man. I remember it well even though I wasn't part of it.
Rua will win tonight and I'm very confident saying that. Whats brought it up and I agree. I've told friends that it reminds me of the high scoring college football team(my team Texas Tech) that pounds average teams but then they face a team that is actually really good and well balanced and they get crushed because they weren't as ready as everyone thought they where.(Oklahoma) It's easy to look great vs average guys but Shogun has done it vs the best. He crushed Page when Page was fighting his best. He crushed Machida when the Machida era had just began. Jones will have his time but it won't be starting tonight.
Weasie, take Rua and the generous line.
Rua will win tonight and I'm very confident saying that. Whats brought it up and I agree. I've told friends that it reminds me of the high scoring college football team(my team Texas Tech) that pounds average teams but then they face a team that is actually really good and well balanced and they get crushed because they weren't as ready as everyone thought they where.(Oklahoma) It's easy to look great vs average guys but Shogun has done it vs the best. He crushed Page when Page was fighting his best. He crushed Machida when the Machida era had just began. Jones will have his time but it won't be starting tonight.
Weasie, take Rua and the generous line.
- Oct 8, 2010
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I want to make clear that I bring up Shogun's opponents in the UFC because he had three fights before the title shot.
Those were
a loss against griffin
an unimpressive win against coleman
they brought chuck lidel out of retirement as big name punching bag
a 2-1 record with wins against two fighters brought out of retirement to be used as punching bags does not merit a title shot.
still on the fence as of this writing...but honestly leaning jones...lots of shogun money has dropped the odds a good bit...but,it`s a moot point for me,though,unless the odds dip a little farther...unless i decide to par him with benavides or larkin.....
Total plays
Rua - This could go either way but going for Rua
Faber, Benavidez and Larkin parlay - all 3 should be to much for opponents
Shalorus - Underdog pick but in his last fight he got smarter. Miller has better striking and subs but if Shalorus can play wrestler and control from the top then that is his path to victory
Pyle - Keep it standing and this is close
Rua - This could go either way but going for Rua
Faber, Benavidez and Larkin parlay - all 3 should be to much for opponents
Shalorus - Underdog pick but in his last fight he got smarter. Miller has better striking and subs but if Shalorus can play wrestler and control from the top then that is his path to victory
Pyle - Keep it standing and this is close
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He allowed Forest Griffin to side mount him multiple times, take his back multiple times, and get choked out.
And that is Forest Griffin.
And who are the "best wrestlersi in mma history" that he has faced. Kevin Randleman? An extremely aged Coleman?
The first time he fought coleman he was running around the ring on his hands and knees like a pig, trying to escape him.
Other than that he has only faced strikers.
Yes, those are his UFC fights but that's not all that counts. He was the Pride champion and that carried weight. Just like Anderson got his shot early and Page got his. So since Leben and Eastman merit title shots then I guess Rua's run does as well. Neither Page nor Silva came in with the credentials that Rua had.
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I would agree with you, if Rua had come in fresh from Pride. But he came in after a years long layoff.
I'm not hating on the UFC for handing him an easy titel shot, it's a business at the end of the day and as a fan I wanted to see Shogun/Machida happen, too.
I'm just trying to point out that the fact that he is "champ" doesn't exactly mean that he is the best at 205lbs.
Some stats
Jones has been successful in 20 out of 22 takedowns in the UFC
For Rua in his last 5 UFC fights his opponents have tried 10 takedowns on him. 9 of them were successful
In his 18 UFC and Pride fights his opponents have tried a total of 38 takedowns. 26 of them were successful
It's almost certain Rua ends up on his back at some stage
Jones has been successful in 20 out of 22 takedowns in the UFC
For Rua in his last 5 UFC fights his opponents have tried 10 takedowns on him. 9 of them were successful
In his 18 UFC and Pride fights his opponents have tried a total of 38 takedowns. 26 of them were successful
It's almost certain Rua ends up on his back at some stage
His first UFC fight was 7 months after his last Pride fight. That's not a long layoff. Now he had a long layoff after the Forrest fight and his knee surgery. He was rusty from that vs Coleman but since that fight there is nothing at all that makes him look anything less than the Shogun we saw in Pride.
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Ok maybe I exaggerated the layoff but it had been 2 years since he last had a win before his two fight title run.
He has had numerous invasive surgeries in the last few years since Pride and he is 3-2 in that span, and didn't really look like the old Shogun at times.
Wow that is awful and now Shogun has someone that can keep him down keeping him down. The strength this kid has with his upper body is something nobody is talking about. U don't toss fantastic wrestlers around like this kid does and not have some kind of elite power. 38 takedowns and stopped only 12 of them? Stopped one out of ten in the UFC? U guys don't think Greg Jackson knows this? Then having this bear on top of u throwing elbows? Shogun better land that kick early and hope the hell it isn't grabbed or this is gonna be a long long night. Or maybe a sort one.
By the way shouldn't this Barbosa fight be a wipe out? anyone have an opinion on it?
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I do.
I think Barboza is going to run WRECKAGE all over Njok. Barboza is a vicious kid. Better striking technique and better on the ground. More versatile.
Always dangerous with two strikers, but I think Barboza will be victorious.
:0074
MMA Record (since UFC 58)
---------------------------------------------
Prop Bet 40-70
Fighter vs. Fighter 258-395
Parlays 104-169
+5.06 Joe Rogans
Eliot Marshall beat Luis Cane $2.60 (+160) *1 Joe Rogan
Raphael Assuncao beat Erik Koch $2.30 (+130) *1.5 Joe Rogans
Costantinos Philippou beat Nick Catone $2.80 (+180) *1 Joe Rogan
Ian Loveland beat Joseph Benevidez $4.20 (+320) *1 Joe Rogan
Parlay #1
------------------------------------------
Edson Barboza
Brendan Schaub
Urijah Faber
odds = $2.34 (+134) *2.5 Joe Rogans
Parlay #2
--------------------------------------------
Brendan Schaub
Urijah Faber
Jim Miller
Nate Marquardt
Jon Jones
odds = $4.84 (+384) *1.5 Joe Rogans
Parlay #3
---------------------------------------
Brendan Schaub
Nate Marquardt
odds = $1.83 (-120) *3 Joe Rogans
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And that was basically coleman and griffen shooting on him. I would be curious to see what that one stop looked like too.
Also, during their fight Griffin took him down a couple of times using the same judo style throws as Jones.
To me it looks like a gift fight to promote Barbosa. Look for Joe Rogan to talk him up because they need lightweight contenders with Penn and Florian out of the picture.
The same thing for the Jim Miller fiight. It makes sense that Miller will get a title shot if he wins this, because guida would be the other logical choice but he is fighting on Jun.4.
lotta street cred riding on this one....:lol:
somebody`s eatin` some serious crow tonight....:142smilie
somebody`s eatin` some serious crow tonight....:142smilie
i am parlaying rua/jones doesn`t go the distance with something...maybe faber and /or larkin and/or marquardt and/or schaub....
given both guys penchant for gassing a bit in hard fights,how does this go 5 rounds?
miller/shalorous,along with barboza /njokuani are verrrry interesting fights...shalorus scares me if he finally decides to use his grappling....which he doesn`t seem to want to do...still like miller here...
i remember bocek out-grappling miller only to get screwed on the cards...
and from the vids i watched,neither njok or barboza like to take a step backwards...this should also finish early...
given both guys penchant for gassing a bit in hard fights,how does this go 5 rounds?
miller/shalorous,along with barboza /njokuani are verrrry interesting fights...shalorus scares me if he finally decides to use his grappling....which he doesn`t seem to want to do...still like miller here...
i remember bocek out-grappling miller only to get screwed on the cards...
and from the vids i watched,neither njok or barboza like to take a step backwards...this should also finish early...
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