Boxing; Cotto-Pac-man

matt19780

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I sure didn't see that weakness with Clottey

No disrespect, but Cotto is not the same fighter when he fought Mosley (Cotto's best fight). Disgraceful Margarito with his loaded gloves gave Cotto a terrible 11 round beating where he was bleeding from the eyes, mouth, and ears. Damage gloves alone could not of caused.

Watch the Clottey fight again. In the 2nd half of the fight Cotto barely made it of one of the rounds. Cotto was so tired he could of been knocked out, but Clottey unexplicably stopped punching. Do you think Pacquiao will stop punching and take the round off?

I am a Cotto fan too, but the referee Kenny Bayless, who is refereeing this fight, after refereeing the Pacquiao vs. Hatton will not hesitate stopping this fight if Cotto gets in trouble. He was in the ring when Hatton was viciously koed by Pacquiao and took Hatton mouth piece out when he was recuperating. Two years ago Cotto vs. Pacquiao is a 50/50 fight, but not anymore.
 
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Andrey

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I have to re-watch Clotty fight because I also have no idea what weakness so many saw in Cotto. All I saw is 170 pound Clotty wanted to win but failed. Now we have 150 pound Pac so don't tell me that 150 pound Pac is stronger then 170 pound Clotty. Pac might have a bit more punching power but usually physically stronger guy is more difficult to beat then puncher.
Then again have to re-watch fight maybe I see something now.
No disrespect, but Cotto is not the same fighter when he fought Mosley (Cotto's best fight). Disgraceful Margarito with his loaded gloves gave Cotto a terrible 11 round beating where he was bleeding from the eyes, mouth, and ears. Damage gloves alone could not of caused.

Watch the Clottey fight again. In the 2nd half of the fight Cotto barely made it of one of the rounds. Cotto was so tired he could of been knocked out, but Clottey unexplicably stopped punching. Do you think Pacquiao will stop punching and take the round off?

I am a Cotto fan too, but the referee Kenny Bayless, who is refereeing this fight, after refereeing the Pacquiao vs. Hatton will not hesitate stopping this fight if Cotto gets in trouble. He was in the ring when Hatton was viciously koed by Pacquiao and took Hatton mouth piece out when he was recuperating. Two years ago Cotto vs. Pacquiao is a 50/50 fight, but not anymore.
 
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Andrey

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By the way, Matt sorry if I sounded disrespectful in anyway. That was not my intent at all. I like your every week picks that you post here.
 

pfj

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No disrespect, but Cotto is not the same fighter when he fought Mosley (Cotto's best fight). Disgraceful Margarito with his loaded gloves gave Cotto a terrible 11 round beating where he was bleeding from the eyes, mouth, and ears. Damage gloves alone could not of caused.

Watch the Clottey fight again. In the 2nd half of the fight Cotto barely made it of one of the rounds. Cotto was so tired he could of been knocked out, but Clottey unexplicably stopped punching. Do you think Pacquiao will stop punching and take the round off?

I am a Cotto fan too, but the referee Kenny Bayless, who is refereeing this fight, after refereeing the Pacquiao vs. Hatton will not hesitate stopping this fight if Cotto gets in trouble. He was in the ring when Hatton was viciously koed by Pacquiao and took Hatton mouth piece out when he was recuperating. Two years ago Cotto vs. Pacquiao is a 50/50 fight, but not anymore.


I do remember where he was in trouble in the Clottey fight. I honestly thought cotto had a chance to lose that fight when it came to the cards. After that round where he was tired....I thought it was over for him. At the same time tho Clottey was leaning alot on Cotto and tired him out. Clottey is a giant compared to pac man tho and I don't see that happening although pac man will stay a lot busier than clottey was for sure. From what cottos sparring partner says, cotto looks like he is back in form and prepared for this fight like he was with mosley. I don't think he will win this fight ( althought I would love him to) but I think its going to be more of a challenge for pac man that cotto is getting credit for. no offense taken matt..all good with me my man. I like to hear other angles. :toast:
 

Pound4Pound#1

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does anyone know where i can wtch the replays of the first 3 24/7 shows? i saw the first one on hbo's website, but i can't seem to find episodes 2 or 3 anywhere? :shrug:
 

gardenweasel

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i think,in all fairness,that the clottey fight deserves an asterisk because of that horrible cut that cotto suffered in the 3rd?(not sure which round...it was early)....

how many guys survive an early cut like that and do enough to hang with a huge,strong elite welter like clottey(much less win)....

that said,i can see manny`s lefty stance and angles/quicks giving cotto trouble....(ferdville said a mouthful)...

it`s not manny`s power...it`s his quickness vs these bigger guys(sorry,sometimes i forget who i`m talking to...i know we all realize that).......
 

Ghost Kid

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Pac line keeps creeping up
Roach and the public think Pac dominates
I think this is a MUCH tougher fight than Hatton or De La Puta
but, in the end, I think Pac is very special - and finds a way to win here
However, I just can't justify laying -320 (I've seen it that high this morning)
I think weasel has the right idea
Pac ITD and/or Cotto straight at odds right before the bell
or just sit back and enjoy the battle...but i can't do that!
:mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:
 

Ghost Kid

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I wouldnt do that.
I could see pacman winning a decision.

I can too....Cotto is very tough.....I can envision a few different scenarios Saturday....these are real warriors.....

But guys with speed tend to bother Cotto....Ricardo Torres was jacking him up.....I am one of the few who thinks Shane beat Miguel.....it's not only big guys like Margarito and Clottey that do well against Miguel....even Zab had his moments....hell, Paulie hung in there......Cotto had trouble with all these guys in spots....

Of course, Pac's speed will mean nothing if Cotto can get close and bang that body.....Cotto is going to have to close the distance IMMEDIATELY....Pac has incredible footwork....if Cotto stops the bouncing feet and closes the gap right away, he has the power to stop Pac with those vicious body blows (some of the best in the biz).....I'm getting excited!

:mj06:
 

matt19780

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I have to re-watch Clotty fight because I also have no idea what weakness so many saw in Cotto. All I saw is 170 pound Clotty wanted to win but failed. Now we have 150 pound Pac so don't tell me that 150 pound Pac is stronger then 170 pound Clotty. Pac might have a bit more punching power but usually physically stronger guy is more difficult to beat then puncher.
Then again have to re-watch fight maybe I see something now.

I agree Clottey is more physical than Pac-Man and that was a big factor in the Clottey Vs. Cotto fight and the Judah vs. Clottey. All I am saying is that I think Cotto is a great warrior and excellent boxer, but he now seems to tire in the late rounds. Could Cotto's stamina loss been because of Clottey size and pressure? Yes, it definately helped tire Cotto, but Clottey punches also contributed.

Guess we will see on Saturday because Pac-man's pressure comes from punch output not size.
 
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matt19780

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I do remember where he was in trouble in the Clottey fight. I honestly thought cotto had a chance to lose that fight when it came to the cards. After that round where he was tired....I thought it was over for him. At the same time tho Clottey was leaning alot on Cotto and tired him out. Clottey is a giant compared to pac man tho and I don't see that happening although pac man will stay a lot busier than clottey was for sure. From what cottos sparring partner says, cotto looks like he is back in form and prepared for this fight like he was with mosley. I don't think he will win this fight ( althought I would love him to) but I think its going to be more of a challenge for pac man that cotto is getting credit for. no offense taken matt..all good with me my man. I like to hear other angles. :toast:

It is cool man. Just a healthy conversation. We are all passionate about the fight which is nice to read.

I see your point about the size factor and you are right that can't be overlooked. That is why i think this is going to be a good fight. Pac-Man doesn't have the size factor that Clottey and Margarito had, but I do like Pacquiao's speed, power, footwork, and combinations in this one.
 

matt19780

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IOf course, Pac's speed will mean nothing if Cotto can get close and bang that body.....Cotto is going to have to close the distance IMMEDIATELY....Pac has incredible footwork....if Cotto stops the bouncing feet and closes the gap right away, he has the power to stop Pac with those vicious body blows (some of the best in the biz).....I'm getting excited!

:mj06:

Good point about the body punching because Marquez had a lot of success against Pacquaio went he went the Pac-Man's body. Marquez's body work definately slowed Pacquaio's attack. If Cotto can attack successfully to the body, then this could be a tough fight for Pacquiao.

That being said I still like pacquaio's foot and handspeed to lead him to a well earned victory.
 

crow

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Pac to get dropped but win: +1000
Cotto to get dropped but win: +2000

Took a little of both at Ladbrokes.
 

frank s.

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Article from Las Vegas newspaper

Article from Las Vegas newspaper

Pricing out wagers on Pacquiao-Cotto

Steve Marcus

Manny Pacquiao strikes a pose Tuesday at the MGM Grand, where he?ll face Miguel Cotto on Saturday.

By Jeff Haney (contact)

Friday, Nov. 13, 2009 | 2 a.m.

Ending With Firepower

OFFICIAL WEIGH-IN
■When: 3 p.m. today (doors open 1 p.m.)
■Where: MGM Grand Garden Arena
■To attend: Open to the public
Reader poll
Who will win on Nov. 14?
Pacquiao by KO, TKO Pacquiao by decision Cotto by KO, TKO Cotto by decision

View results
Complete Sun Coverage
■Pacquiao vs Cotto
I would not go so far as to call the betting line mispriced in Saturday?s fight between Manny Pacquiao and Miguel Cotto at the MGM Grand, particularly as it continues to drift higher in favor of Pacquiao.

Still, I am comfortable making a case for Pacquiao in the welterweight title bout at the Grand Garden Arena.

First, a look at a selection of betting prices around town:

After opening as a minus 250 favorite, Pacquiao has been bet up to as high as minus 330 (risk $3.30 to net $1), the line Thursday afternoon at the MGM, the fight?s host hotel, and all related properties. Cotto was a plus 250 underdog (risk $1 to net $2.50).

Pacquiao was still minus 285 at all Lucky?s sports books in Nevada, with Cotto at plus 245.

The South Point, Palms and related sports books had the line minus 300/plus 250 in favor of Pacquiao.

Several books ? including Leroy?s, the Golden Nugget and all Harrah?s properties ? had the line minus 300/plus 220. The Boyd books had it minus 300/plus 240.

Note that the lines at Lucky?s books and South Point are more bettor-friendly than elsewhere. At Lucky?s, for example, gamblers can find a better price on the fight than the one offered at Leroy?s, the Nugget, Harrah?s or Boyd ? regardless of which boxer they like to win the bout. This underscores the importance of shopping around before placing a bet.

The over/under on the fight stands at 9 1/2 rounds at most spots in Las Vegas, with a premium on the ?under,? or ?won?t go 9 1/2,? as it is sometimes phrased. At Lucky?s, for instance, the ?won?t go? is listed at minus 145, with the ?will go? at plus 125.

The MGM joints have the will go/won?t go at 10 full rounds (the fight is scheduled for 12), minus 145 on the under, or ?won?t go.?

In pick-the-result proposition betting, the Harrah?s books had Pacquiao to win by knockout at even money, a more attractive price than the minus 120 to minus 145 elsewhere.

The odds on Pacquiao by decision ranged from 9-5 (MGM) to 3-1 (Cal Neva properties).

The odds on Cotto by knockout didn?t vary much, ranging from 13-5 to 3-1.

The odds on Cotto by decision ranged from 4-1 (Harrah?s) to 9-1 (Cal Neva).

The price on a draw was as low as 14-1 (MGM) and as high as 25-1 (Cal Neva).

As always, odds are subject to change.

By way of comparison, Pacquiao was favored in his victory against Ricky Hatton by anywhere from minus 200 to minus 270. Pacquiao beat Oscar De La Hoya as an underdog of about 2-1.

Cotto was a minus 340 favorite in his split-decision victory against Joshua Clottey. Before his controversial loss to Antonio Margarito, Cotto had been bet up from a minus 170 favorite to a minus 270 favorite.

Now, the handicap:

I come down on the side of Pacquiao in most of the fundamentals. Pacquiao has an edge in hand speed and foot speed and packs more than enough power to do some damage to Cotto when he catches him. Pacquiao?s defense has improved substantially in recent years. He figures to be quick and agile enough to prevent Cotto from landing at will.

With Freddie Roach running his corner, I give Pacquiao an edge in the areas of training and developing a game plan.

Many of those factors are likely built into the betting line, of course.

A couple of intangibles could also favor Pacquiao, though. Cotto, with his naturally larger frame, could be a bit drained as he works his way down to the 145-pound catch weight for the fight. And Cotto could have trouble with cuts and the resultant flow of blood, especially in the area of his left eye, if Pacquiao gets through with some hard right hooks in the early to middle rounds.

I?m on record predicting Pacquiao to win by decision, but for betting purposes a straight win wager on Pacquiao is the way to play it.
 

frank s.

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Officials for Pac-Cotto

Officials for Pac-Cotto

Anyone know who the ref will be? I'll say this, if it's Bayless, bet the OVER as he will break guys up if one hits the other too hard. He is way too intrusive a ref and a meddler in the ring. If it's Smoger, take the UNDER.
 

Quanah

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Anyone know who the ref will be? I'll say this, if it's Bayless, bet the OVER as he will break guys up if one hits the other too hard. He is way too intrusive a ref and a meddler in the ring. If it's Smoger, take the UNDER.

I do believe it's Bayless my man, but can someone else confirm this for us.
 
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