Game Of Thrones - HBO
- Thread starter ImFeklhr
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Lots of people on the net seem to think yesterday's episode went a little to far at the end.
Rape is "common" in this show but that scene was probably more to move the Theon character on
Rape is "common" in this show but that scene was probably more to move the Theon character on
Seen the word "rape" thrown all over the net about this scene. This was absolutely NOT a rape. Brutal and horrible sure, but not rape. She's a bride on her wedding night consummating the marriage with her husband and at no point does she tell him to stop (not that it would have done any good). She's consenting. The fact that she doesn't want to doesn't make it rape.
Don't get me wrong; I like Sansa and don't like seeing bad things happen to her. But she also gets entirely too much sympathy. She's definitely been the victim of a lot of psychological abuse but physically she's had 2 things happen to her - the beating from Sir Meryn Trant and now this. Neither are pleasant, but compare that to what pretty much every other protagonist has endured - Ned, Catelyn, Rob, Bran, Arya, Jon, Tyrion, Brienne, etc. It's not even close. Yeah she's a "prisoner" but she's spent all of her time in captivity in castles with servants attending to her every need. We should all be so unlucky. She seems to get a different scale because of the whole "she was brought up to be a lady and she wasn't prepared for this." But with the wealth of strong female characters in this show (Catelyn, Brienne, Arya, Cersei, Margaery, Olenna, Daenerys) that just doesn't hold water.
"Your honor, it's true I never told him to stop but I secretly didn't want to so that's why it's rape." That seem right to you?
So then I guess hookers are being raped constantly? I am quite sure they don't actually want to have sex with most of their customers, but they consent to in exchange for payment. I am also quite sure that at some point in our marriage my wife has consented to have sex with me even though she wasn't particularly feeling like it that night. That rape too?
The point is that consent and desire are not the same thing. And consensual sex is not rape, regardless of the level of desire. Hell, half of marriage is consenting to things you don't really want to do. Never really wanted to go shoe shopping with my wife or have lunch with my MIL but have done both. Given the choice, I might have preferred an evening of romance with old Ramsay to either of those.
So then I guess hookers are being raped constantly? I am quite sure they don't actually want to have sex with most of their customers, but they consent to in exchange for payment. I am also quite sure that at some point in our marriage my wife has consented to have sex with me even though she wasn't particularly feeling like it that night. That rape too?
The point is that consent and desire are not the same thing. And consensual sex is not rape, regardless of the level of desire. Hell, half of marriage is consenting to things you don't really want to do. Never really wanted to go shoe shopping with my wife or have lunch with my MIL but have done both. Given the choice, I might have preferred an evening of romance with old Ramsay to either of those.
Let the person who killed her brothers stay in the room, Ripped her clothes off, forced her down, resulted in screaming. Is that shoe shopping to you?
I was being facetious. Clearly I don't actually believe that those 2 experiences are anything more than light years apart. And if that wasn't actually clear, then let it be clear now.
I'm certainly not defending what Ramsay did. It was horrible, brutal, perverse, and evil and whatever horrible things (hopefully) happen to him down the line will never be enough to make up for all he's done. So really this is probably a semantics argument more than anything.
It's interesting to contrast this with the scene last year with Cersei and Jamie. That one also got the "rape" label, and more deservedly so IMO. She clearly tells him to stop and he doesn't, so I think it applies even though it also seemed pretty clear (especially in the book - and I know we don't really discuss that here) that she was really saying no because it wasn't the right time/place and not because she didn't want to.
I'm certainly not defending what Ramsay did. It was horrible, brutal, perverse, and evil and whatever horrible things (hopefully) happen to him down the line will never be enough to make up for all he's done. So really this is probably a semantics argument more than anything.
It's interesting to contrast this with the scene last year with Cersei and Jamie. That one also got the "rape" label, and more deservedly so IMO. She clearly tells him to stop and he doesn't, so I think it applies even though it also seemed pretty clear (especially in the book - and I know we don't really discuss that here) that she was really saying no because it wasn't the right time/place and not because she didn't want to.
And a time without workers compensation, some of those workers in King's Landing really need to file a complaint with upper management. The working conditions in King's Landing suck.
Working conditions at the wall also suck.
Hock up a big old phlegm clam and send it over the side to see if it freezes in the way down.
Season 5 is no where near as good as 1-4.
I hope it's not going downhill.
There are a few of you here that are like "wow what great dialoge!"
Story development is great. Talking heads is not.
I hope it's not going downhill.
There are a few of you here that are like "wow what great dialoge!"
Story development is great. Talking heads is not.
Did you Canadians just get Google up there?
Thanks for the widely available info, I guess.
Season 5 Episode 7 "The Gift" May 24th
- Jon departs for Hardhome with his new best buddy Tormund, not sure that trip is going to go well, but at least Sam gave Jon his dragonglass weapons so Jon will be ok.
- Maester Aemon dies, that puts an official end to all of Daenerys relatives, she is the last of them. After Aemon dies, Sam eulogizes him, and it was beautiful, well done Sam.
- Speaking of Sam it turns out after losing his buddy and setting him on fire wasn't the worst that was to happen to him that night. Later that evening Gilly is attacked in the dining hall by two brothers, Sam tries his best to save her, it does not go well. Thankfully Jon's wolf, Ghost, come to the rescue and Gilly is ok. All and all it goes very well for Sam, sure he almost gets beaten to death but he gets some Gilly vagina so he's happy. Well worth the beating, well worth it.
- Reek brings food to Sansa, who has been locked in her chamber since her wedding night. She begs for his help, and how does Reek repay her? He runs and tells Ramsay Sansa's plan, fuck you Reek. Once again a Stark gets screwed over, but it gets worse. Ramsay shows her the corpse of the woman who promised to help Sansa if she lit the candle in the tower, yep once again a Stark female can't catch a fucking break:facepalm:
- Fire bitch can choke on her flames, fuck her. Now she wants to sacrifice Shireen to the Red God, I mean fuck off. It is time for Fire Cunt to die. Finally massively pussy-whipped Stannis stands up for himself and tells Fire Cunt to leave, even he isn't going for the "let's sacrifice my daughter to the Red God" bullshit. Of course we are talking about a guy who is so pussy-whipped he might just go for her plan so stay tuned.
- It seems Daenerys boy-toy Daario is big fan of Joseph Stalin, he advises her that, on the day the Fighting Pits are reopened, she should gather all the Wise Masters and kill them. Well holy shit balls that seems a tad dramatic, it seems Daario is a little bit of a psychopath:scared
- Mr. "Friend Zone" himself Jorah finally gets to see his girl Daenerys at the fighting pits, she is not happy to see him. She orders he be taken away, nope that is not how he wanted it to go. But before that can be completed, Jorah tells her he brought her a gift, and Tyrion enters the arena, where he reveals his identity to her. Mr. "Friend Zone" might have bought himself more time, she seemed happy with the gift.
- In Dorne, Myrcella is brought to speak with Jaime, and asks why he came to taker her back to King's Landing, when what she wants is to stay and marry Trystane. Before he can explain, she leaves, fucking teenagers, man they never listen.
- Bronn is seduced by Tyene Sand, before learning that her daggers were coated with slow acting poison when she cut his arm. Things were not looking good for Bronn, but all he had to do was say Tyene was super hot and she saved him. Chicks will do anything for a compliment. By the way Tyene Sand could make some good money as a stripper, good way to make some extra money if she needs it.
- Olenna meets with the High Sparrow to discuss the imprisonment of her grandchildren, it goes nowhere, Olenna is pissed. Petyr meets with Olenna in one of his whorehouses, Olenna reminds Petyr of the role they both played in Joffrey's murder, and that, should her house fall, she won't keep his involvement a secret. Olenna seems to be the only one that can put Petyr in his place, you go girl.
- Cersei meets with Margaery and brings her food, but Margaery ain't taking any of that Cersei bullshit, thatta girl Margaery. Cersei then meets with the High Sparrow, and wew baby did that not go well for Cersei:scared It seems the High Sparrow found out about her incestuous relationship with Lancel. Off to the cell for Cersei:00x30
- Jon departs for Hardhome with his new best buddy Tormund, not sure that trip is going to go well, but at least Sam gave Jon his dragonglass weapons so Jon will be ok.
- Maester Aemon dies, that puts an official end to all of Daenerys relatives, she is the last of them. After Aemon dies, Sam eulogizes him, and it was beautiful, well done Sam.
- Speaking of Sam it turns out after losing his buddy and setting him on fire wasn't the worst that was to happen to him that night. Later that evening Gilly is attacked in the dining hall by two brothers, Sam tries his best to save her, it does not go well. Thankfully Jon's wolf, Ghost, come to the rescue and Gilly is ok. All and all it goes very well for Sam, sure he almost gets beaten to death but he gets some Gilly vagina so he's happy. Well worth the beating, well worth it.
- Reek brings food to Sansa, who has been locked in her chamber since her wedding night. She begs for his help, and how does Reek repay her? He runs and tells Ramsay Sansa's plan, fuck you Reek. Once again a Stark gets screwed over, but it gets worse. Ramsay shows her the corpse of the woman who promised to help Sansa if she lit the candle in the tower, yep once again a Stark female can't catch a fucking break:facepalm:
- Fire bitch can choke on her flames, fuck her. Now she wants to sacrifice Shireen to the Red God, I mean fuck off. It is time for Fire Cunt to die. Finally massively pussy-whipped Stannis stands up for himself and tells Fire Cunt to leave, even he isn't going for the "let's sacrifice my daughter to the Red God" bullshit. Of course we are talking about a guy who is so pussy-whipped he might just go for her plan so stay tuned.
- It seems Daenerys boy-toy Daario is big fan of Joseph Stalin, he advises her that, on the day the Fighting Pits are reopened, she should gather all the Wise Masters and kill them. Well holy shit balls that seems a tad dramatic, it seems Daario is a little bit of a psychopath:scared
- Mr. "Friend Zone" himself Jorah finally gets to see his girl Daenerys at the fighting pits, she is not happy to see him. She orders he be taken away, nope that is not how he wanted it to go. But before that can be completed, Jorah tells her he brought her a gift, and Tyrion enters the arena, where he reveals his identity to her. Mr. "Friend Zone" might have bought himself more time, she seemed happy with the gift.
- In Dorne, Myrcella is brought to speak with Jaime, and asks why he came to taker her back to King's Landing, when what she wants is to stay and marry Trystane. Before he can explain, she leaves, fucking teenagers, man they never listen.
- Bronn is seduced by Tyene Sand, before learning that her daggers were coated with slow acting poison when she cut his arm. Things were not looking good for Bronn, but all he had to do was say Tyene was super hot and she saved him. Chicks will do anything for a compliment. By the way Tyene Sand could make some good money as a stripper, good way to make some extra money if she needs it.
- Olenna meets with the High Sparrow to discuss the imprisonment of her grandchildren, it goes nowhere, Olenna is pissed. Petyr meets with Olenna in one of his whorehouses, Olenna reminds Petyr of the role they both played in Joffrey's murder, and that, should her house fall, she won't keep his involvement a secret. Olenna seems to be the only one that can put Petyr in his place, you go girl.
- Cersei meets with Margaery and brings her food, but Margaery ain't taking any of that Cersei bullshit, thatta girl Margaery. Cersei then meets with the High Sparrow, and wew baby did that not go well for Cersei:scared It seems the High Sparrow found out about her incestuous relationship with Lancel. Off to the cell for Cersei:00x30
Last known relative perhaps, but I can virtually guarantee you this is not true. In fact, I personally believe she still has 2. And FYI, these are not book spoilers - as nothing like this has been revealed so far in the books. It's just the theory of myself and numerous others based on the evidence at hand.
The one I am 99% positive about is that Jon Snow is her half-brother, the product of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen. Ask yourself if it even remotely makes sense that Ned Stark - Mr. Honor and Loyalty himself - was so overcome with lust that he forgot his vows and slept with some lowborn woman? Instead does it make more sense that Rhager didn't kidnap Lyanna - they were actually in love and ran away together. Ned gets to the castle to "rescue her" just as Lyanna is dying - as a result of childbirth. With Robert's rebellion in full swing it's quite obvious what would happen to a Targaryen heir (Prince Oberyn reminded us many times what happend to his sister Elia, i.e. Rhaegar's wife - "You raped her; you murdered her; you killed her children"). Lyanna's dying request is for Ned to protect her son, which of course he does. They even hinted at this a few episodes back when Littlefinger tells Sansa the story while they are in the crypts under Winterfell - and pointedly does not confirm when Sansa says "he kidnapped her."
The other one that I am less sure about but still pretty damn sure is that Tyrion is also her half-brother - the product of the Aerys Targaryen ("the mad king") and Joanna Lannister (i.e. Tywin's wife). There is no direct evidence that they slept together (hence the less than 100% certainty) but it is not a stretch to think that the mad king took liberties with Tywin's wife. This would explain both why Tywin joined Robert's rebellion and why he never treated Tyrion like a son. The smoking gun here though - what are Tywin's final words to Tyrion? "You're no son of mine"
